I’d be delighted to complain about your post. But I agree with it. Truth be told, I don’t like men very much, especially other white boomers. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with those guys?

Right, double it up if you're atypical, a person of color, or lgbtq+

Also; disabled, single parent, victim of DV, homeless etc ...

Or old, as well. I hear older folks saying how they became invisible. I’ve tried being friendlier with random older people a bit more (I don’t have many in my day to day life) but - perhaps quite understandably - it’s not always welcome. Being old, invisible and lonely will be devastating.

@RickiTarr

Nope - it would hurt *women* more than it would help. Just a different form of ‘control your behavior so men still don’t have to control theirs’

or these?

Or these?

And dudes, if you're still having trouble understanding it after this, ask me. Don't ask women! Making women responsible for dealing with sexist nonsense is part of sexism. (And if you want to know about that, read Manne's "Down Girl".)

particularly loving this one. It’s hilarious!

It is incredibly important when people are voting about whether you deserve rights

Do you really care what I think? Or do you just want me to vote the way you would like me to? I certainly will not be offended if you don't care as there is no reason you should. But the notion of public empathy when there is no actual motivation except to manipulate one's vote seems rather hollow? It's true there are real issues at stake but perhaps empathy should be reserved for those who have real injury or need. Public displays of indignance are rather unpersuasive.

You really like to hear yourself talk. We all know what she means. Why this stupid babble, as if she wasn't crystal clear? Sorry, but I hate that kind of thing. This is going in that direction of mansplaining again.

Explain to me what she means. I am asking for an explanation.

You have to be kidding???? Seriously?

@Pistolenkind @RickiTarr

She said "We all know what she means" so if I don't know what she means perhaps she can explain it. I get the idea that the purpose of this exercise is to shame people rather than educate them. I would like to be proved wrong.

I'm going to be really unpopular in saying this. First: no disagreement whatsoever with the post you replied to. Every point if it hits well and true. Second: the pushback against men feeling accused/attacked when "men" (i.e., all men because no modifiers on that) are called rapists, abusers, harassers, etc. is legitimate. It's also weaponized by some assholes, but the reason that's possible is because it's a reasonable point: I don't think stereotypes are helpful even when pointed at groups that have greater social/economical/political power. They're still stereotypes, they're still lazy thinking, and they're still guaranteed to cause injustice.

More than that: Overall, I suspect the people hearing these "how dare you say Not All Men" posts are the men who are least likely to need those messages. They are the men in the social/social-media circles of feminists. They are generally feminists themselves, and are working to advance women's rights and reduce men's abuses. So yelling at men who feel stereotyped in this way is probably even less likely to be helpful than if it was to a general audience.

Finally: Not all men and not all women. As the stigma against reporting sexual abuse has slowly been eroded, our understanding of the percentage of men experiencing abuse has climbed. The best national probability-based surveys are now estimating that the proportion of men who have been sexually abused/assaulted is not far from the proportion of female victims (though still lower). There are many caveats to that, including sex-abuse-adjacent issues like physical violence, economic control, etc. However, the majority of these men are sexually abused by women, though a sizable minority are abused by other men.

Men do bad things. Not all men do bad things. Shaming men for not wanting to be stereotyped as abusers isn't helpful, in my opinion.

I fully realize a huge part of the problem is that there are bad-faith actors who regularly use the facts here--that most men aren't abusers, many men are victims, and many women are also abusers--for misogynistic reasons. That doesn't make the facts stop existing, and it doesn't (IMO) mean broad stereotypes and shouting down anyone objecting to the stereotypes is a helpful way to proceed.

If you'd like academic sources for the claims above, I can get them within a few hours. This is my area of research.

Really good advice because it’s something very specific that we guys can and should do frequently. I recently learned of the ‚Broken Stair Theory‘ and that was quite eye-opening. Takes a lot of courage to point out wrongdoings in your social circles, but it feels like an achievable and worthwhile goal.

It is essential advice. Ironically though being significantly less tolerant of racist, homophobic, transphobia and sexist wankery in my social circles - getting old: who has time for that BS? - has led me to being significantly more lonely! There are costs (as every woman knows of course). Thankfully I happen to have an unbelievably fabulous missus and still a smaller but excellent group of good friends.

@RickiTarr
@DavidM_yeg

hear me out: what if your experience isn't universal? what if there are men who've been stuck with narcissist partners abusing and isolating them? or men who've done nothing wrong yet are unjustly barred by family courts from seeing their own kids? could there be men whose families have kicked them out for trying to stand up for the rights of their trans stepkids? there are. and also there are unique stigmas set against men that make dealing with all this harder.

just once try not making something about men. Try it. It might be liberating.

@RickiTarr @donw

sadly true.

@RickiTarr