Asking 'Do you condemn Hamas?' is their way of demanding you kiss the ring. Accepting Blinken in our circles without challenging his narrative is doing just that. Stop legitimizing the parade of authority figures.
Courage, push them out. #FreePalestine
Courage, push them out. #FreePalestine
RememberUsAlways •
Asking if a person condems Hamas is a test of the paradox that is #freepalestine
You can't have Hamas and freedom and everyone who is not a terrorist or chaos agent understands that truth.
Perhaps we should give Hamas another 75 years to stand up a government? Because that is the outcome you suggest
@palestine
@israel
Dave Goldsmith •
Terrorist or resistance/freedom fighter? If they win they become leaders, politicians, even statesmen.
RememberUsAlways •
Resistance/ Freedom fighters do NOT attempt to extract demands using civilian #hotages as doing so is a direct violation of the #genevaconventions.
Once you take a #hostage, you sacrifice your "freedom" narrative and any justification for human rights abuse.
@flipkoin @palestine @israel
Dave Goldsmith •
Is the IDF a terrorist org too? Is this a terrorist v. terrorist battle?
How do you make YOUR moral calculations? For (a hypothetical) example, which is worse: Taking a hostage you don't otherwise mistreat and eventually release or killing a civilian in a military operation as "collateral damage?"
Just asking.
RememberUsAlways •
You and I are safe in our nations, with governments that are elected by the citizens while we opine on the terrorist wars of the 21st century.
Yes, Israel has had to fight street by street to kill the Hamas terrorists who hide in places of worship, schools and hospitals.
@flipkoin @palestine @israel
RememberUsAlways hat dies geteilt
Dave Goldsmith •
Not to quibble, but in my country, the popular vote of citizens does'nt elect our president!
But you're quite correct. I'm a long way from Palestine, and I am not directly involved in the killing.
From my vantage point, Israel is committing a genocide against the Palestinian people. This feels like the application of the "Shock Doctrine" whereby governments take advantage of crises to deliver results they might otherwise be unable to achieve.
RememberUsAlways •
That was and continues to be both truth and fact regardless of your claims of Genocide.
Hamas is the first terrorist group to use civilian infrastructure as a battlefield as evidence by the massive tunnel city built under #Palestinians, now destroyed.
@flipkoin @palestine @israel
firstprimate 🇵🇸 •
Your first sentence conflates two different groups of people to try to delegitimise the second based on a (fake) state of the first.
You are being dishonest and disingenuous.
RememberUsAlways •
It's true that Palestinian Arabs live peacefully in Israel.
It's also true that the population around Israel has grown to over 7 million in the 75 years since Israel was declared a nation.
It's also true that the last election in Palestine was 2006.
I live in a peaceful nation with frequent elections.
Unfortunately, Palestinians have never known peace or democracy.
@Dave_Goldsmith @flipkoin @palestine @israel
firstprimate 🇵🇸 •
It’s cherry picking season!! Where not all cherries are actually cherries!!
Still being dishonest and disingenuous.
Dave Goldsmith •
The "Palestinian crisis" didn't begin with Hamas' attack on a music festival it began with the Declaration of a Jewish state in Palestine, IMHO.
People much more knowledgeable about this subject than I am have been debating this for at least 75 years, yes?
So here we are, the Jewish population of Palestine seems about to kill & permanently expel the Arab population, and the world is unable to stop it.
This isn't about morals it is about power.
RememberUsAlways •
it's about power and the lack thereof.
If your "nation" fails to stand up a Government that promotes peace and rather, creates a martyr economy based on the destruction of its "neighbor" nation for 75 years...
Your're expecting the nations who have a government and promote peace to be destroyed?
It's not #Hamas who is handing out food to starving Palestinians right now, I can promise you that.
@flipkoin @palestine @israel
Dave Goldsmith •
I don't know if there was ever a chance for a just and peaceful settlement of Arabs and Jews in Palestine.
What certainly seems clear now is that the Jews won.
I suspect that the next catacysmic event, perhaps within my lifetime, will be the detonation of a nuke in Tel Aviv.
RememberUsAlways •
You honestly believe they want that ?
But I appreciate your assessment of where the war on Hamas stands. Thank you 👍
@flipkoin @palestine @israel
Dave Goldsmith •
To me, there is no "war" on Hamas. There isn't even really a "war" on the Palestinian people. This is about the slaughter, genocide & expulsion of the Palestinian people from their historic homeland. You could call it Likkud's "final solution."
As for whether the billionaires would want a nuke detonated in Tel Aviv, I don't think the likely perpetrators would ask or require their permission. You could call it the jihadist's "final solution."
RememberUsAlways •
From my vantage point, it's the extreme example of your suggestion that must be destroyed before such extreme events would trigger a chain of events by the world.
I'm not sure you are hearing that point.
@flipkoin @palestine @israel
Dave Goldsmith •
If you think the explusion of the Palestinians from their homeland makes a catastrophic series of international catastrophes LESS likely, then we have a fundamental disagreement.
To avoid the nightmare scenario that we both hint at requires justice, not force, IMHO.
RememberUsAlways •
Then justice. Jews were subjects of the Holocaust for a decade in WW2 and the hate of the Jewish culture dates back before Romans ruled Palestine.
I'm not convinced there has been a plot to remove Palestinians in the context of thousands of years of conflict.
All of a sudden, Genocide?
Did everyone just wake up or were we not aware of the thousands of years of slaughter, slavery?
@flipkoin @palestine @israel
RememberUsAlways hat dies geteilt
Maple •
They were peacefully living as neighbors until 1948. And to call Palestinians arab is a heck of a whiplash. I mean, they speak Arabic, but so does everyone from the former Arab Empire (Abbasyd Caliphate). There are Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians, and Muslims. And the ethnicity is Palestinian. Just as Moroccans and Iraqis are Morrocans and Iraqis, and also "Arab". It has been called Palestine since the Roman Empire annexed the region and named it that. And the genetic and ethnic background of Palestinians very much includes Israelites and Judeans.
The Khazars and Bulghars conversion to Judaism in the 9th century doesn't give them a right to the lands of the descendants of Abraham. Faith is not a birthright.
RememberUsAlways hat dies geteilt
RememberUsAlways •
It's taken over a year but I finally found THE toot.
@histodons
@israel
@palestine
@syria
@lebanon
@yemen
@ireland
@uk
@Dave_Goldsmith @flipkoin
RememberUsAlways •
By the same reason, Palestinians should enjoy the peace a security of freedom in their ancestral land.
Palestinians chose a vacuum of stable government, electing Hamas to major power in 2006.
@histodons @israel @palestine @syria @lebanon @yemen @ireland @uk @Dave_Goldsmith @flipkoin
Maple •
No.
Zionism can get rekt.
Palestine will be free from the river to the sea.
https://youtu.be/oIwH5m8G0ac?si=6I3xPmj4UrWjVIhy
- YouTube
youtu.beRememberUsAlways •
@histodons @lebanon @palestine @syria @yemen @Dave_Goldsmith @flipkoin
Dave Goldsmith •
I don't see any contradiction let alone hypocrisy in acknowledging that both Jews and Arabs have lived in Palestine for millennia and wanting all of Palestine to be free.
RememberUsAlways •
That dream is dead now, unfortunately.
Abandoned by the UN in favor of donations to UNRWA.
How is that working out for everyone?
@noricenolife @histodons @lebanon @palestine @syria @yemen @flipkoin
Dave Goldsmith •
What do you mean by "Faith is not a birthright." What IS a birthright?
Maple •
It's not okay for American Buddhists to colonize and genocide Nepal just because their religion came from there.
This analogy should explain better.
Dave Goldsmith •
That makes sense. But I'm interested in your use of the term "birthright." What does it mean for you? Does it even exist?
Maple •
I took it from the scriptures. And I understand it as described in them.
Dave Goldsmith •
I am unfamiliar with the scriptural interpretation of "birthright." Which scriptures are you referring to? What is the meaning?
Maple •
It is used over and over in Bereshit/ Genesis and is a major theme in that book. Chapter 25 contains it. Where Jacob purchases Esau's birthright (right of inheretance) for a bowl of stew.
Dave Goldsmith •
Is it too complex a concept to define in a sentence or two?
RememberUsAlways •
So a birthright can be synonymous with inheritance.
@noricenolife @palestine @flipkoin
Dave Goldsmith •
Got it. How do you think this applies to Palestine, if at all?
Maple •
Palestinians have a right of inheretance over the land. Europeans who converted to Judaism do not.
I'm pretty sure that was already clear. Why do you think DNA tests are illegal in israeli law?
RememberUsAlways •
You have to PROVE inheritance. The act of claiming that's mine because my ancestors lived there requires proof.
https://www.palquest.org/en/overallchronology?show=intro&sideid=6432
@palestine @Dave_Goldsmith @flipkoin
Law Granting Foreigners the Right to Own Real Estate in the Ottoman Empire., 7 Safar 1284 (10 June 1867)
Interactive Encyclopedia of the Palestine Question – palquestRememberUsAlways hat dies geteilt
Rickd6 •
RememberUsAlways •
I did not write the law in the 1800's.
Talk to Turkey. They gave the territory to the UK after they lost WW1.
@flipkoin @noricenolife @Dave_Goldsmith