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A revolution that doesn't know how govt money works? Pls help to spread this info:

An intellectual demolition of Steve Moore, economic mouthpiece for Trump, Musk, & Heritage Foundation:

Debate: "Should the U.S. federal government make reducing the national debt a fiscal priority?"

Steve Moore argues the affirmative case.

Arguing the negative is Stephanie Kelton

Debate starts 30.45 min in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyDVycbRGp0

#mmt #uspol #debt&deficit #stephaniekelton #useconomics #ukpol #auspol .

2
What we've been taught about economics is backwards | read Warren Mosler's book & my head exploded. He said the complete opposite of what I'd been taught in economics. Warren said the federal government has to spend first, before any of us can have the funds to pay taxes or buy government bonds. | had always been taught that the feds first collect tax or govt bonds, & then they can spend. Warren said "That's backwards”. Take the board game, Monopoly. You can't start the game until you first distribute funds to the players. Warren's point is that the federal government is the monopoly issuer of the currency. It has to contribute to us before we can operate with those funds. And | thought, "Well, this must be wrong. | don't know why it's wrong, but I'm going to find out why it's wrong". So | started doing research into the Treasury, the Fed, etc. That's how | convinced myself that Warren was right. | went through it all & figured out that there was actually no other way for it to work. Stephanie Kelton 16 April, 2025, abridged from 1:15:15 in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyDVycbRGpO

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

DrALJONES
2.

Re the debate: "Should the U.S. federal government make reducing the national debt a fiscal priority?"

Today's fed "debt" is entirely different from household debt. Fed "debt" isn't borrowed, so isn't repayable.

The US tried paying down the so-called"debt" seven times in its entire history.

The first 6 times resulted in a depression (first image)

The seventh time (Clinton) resulted in a recession (2nd image)

#mmt #uspol #useconomics #debt&deficit #ukpol #auspol .
Table of depressions following 6 debt pay downs
Graph showing Clinton's Paying Down the Debt resulted in resession

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

Andii Bowsher
I think the game is a very helpful quick way in to thinking about it.
https://nouslife.blogspot.com/2015/04/monopoly-games-teach-about-deficit.html

Monopoly games teach about The Deficit

theology, social and political comment, spirituality, art
nouslife.blogspot.com

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

Andii Bowsher
To be fair, those old enough to have been taught about Keynesian macroeconomics as part of our basic intro, kind of already knew that the neo lib account was skrewey.

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DrALJONES
Interesting. More detail please? Eg, were you studying eco before the gold standard was dropped? Did anything about mmt surprise you? Etc
Andii Bowsher
After exit from gold standard but not that long after. Tbh, it was very initial study and my subsequent studies weren't economics. So, years later I came to reconsider how money works and #mmt had come about. It seemed kind of familiar: like Keynes but with a different stating point while giving an account of money supply to supplant the monetarilsm I'd previously learnt about. I think when I was first learning, our teachers hadn't really sussed what going off gold meant.
#mmt
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DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

DrALJONES
That's really interesting!

If ok with you, would you hashtag mmt for your posts?

With Kelton's increasing popularity, i think it would be good to invigorate the hashtag with plain-language conversation.

@ApostateEnglishman is also great with accessible language & speaking truth to bs
@The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Andii Bowsher
I generally do hashtag initial posts with #mmt when mentioning it. I tend not to do so subsequently unless it's introduced into the thread at that point.
Thanks for the recommendation for further follow.
#mmt
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DrALJONES
Yes, makes sense.
DrALJONES
Most people, including many economists have been fed - and swallowed - Thatcher's lie: "There is no such thing as public money. There is only taxpayers' money.

Imo, we need to educate far and wide on this - especially the left. Please consider spreading what you know - in plain language.

Eg, imo, currency-issuing govts' use of the word "debt" misleads people into thinking it was borrowed in the same way a household borrows & must repay.

#mmt .
#mmt
Eric Maugendre
I agree that our language should be plain.

• Nation-states do not reimburse debt. (They restructure it.)
• Nation-states can obtain funding by issuing they own money (or credit).
• Nation-states invest or spend as much as they want by issuing they own money (or credit).

#slogans #debt #deficit #sovereignty #money #centralBanks #currency #MMT #power #wealth #settlements #transactions #policy #government #politics #economy #policies #climatePolicies #economics #economy
#politics #economy #power #debt #wealth #money #economics #government #currency #sovereignty #slogans #deficit #policy #mmt #settlements #policies #centralbanks #climatepolicies #transactions
DrALJONES
Much appreciated, Eric.

Just a small point: we need to differentiate non-currency-issuers (eg, members of the EU, eg, France) from stable, sovereign currency-issuing countries such as the US, UK, and Japan.

@AndiiB
@Andii Bowsher
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Eric Maugendre
I am happy to participate 🙏🏽

Argentina has been for years a fictive currency issuer; more accurately: the peso was pegged to the dollar.

Your remark is right but does not serve the purpose of speaking plain or simple. Yet i am taking it and trying again:
• Sovereign states do not reimburse debt. (They restructure it.)
• Sovereign states obtain funding by issuing they own money & credit.
• Sovereign states invest or spend as much as they want by issuing they own money & credit.

You?
DrALJONES
🙏

I'm not a specialist, merely a student, so not sure of many things.

I value accuracy and tend to use the terminology used by the specialists I follow. Aren't there "sovereign" states that don't issue their currency?

I gather that unless a state is a "stable, sovereign, currency issuer", it probably can't act as freely economically as, eg, US et al.

I imagine we're stuck with that descriptor if we want to accurately inform.

@ApostateEnglishman
#mmt .
#mmt @The Sleight Doctor 🃏
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Eric Maugendre
To me "sovereign" has at least two problems:
* it leads to complicating like you just pointed out;
* a definition is recursive in that: "is sovereign a state, with its own money and its own army".
I suggest that good slogans instead build on common sense, such as nation-states...

What do you think?
DrALJONES
As I'm not trained in the area, I follow the terminology used by those I trust for their scholarship and ethics.

I'm not talking about jargon, but rather about the fundamental terms, such as "currency issuing". I try to embed the correct terms in plain speak. I see Kelton as a good example of doing this.

It's important to me to use the terms correctly, especially when I'm trying to educate others.
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The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Very important to differentiate the Eurozone countries, or countries with currencies pegged to the dollar, from *monetarily* sovereign nations such as the US, UK, New Zealand, Australia, etc. The #MMT analysis only applies to fiat currency-issuing governments with their own central banks. The EU is a union of sovereign nations, but they aren't *monetarily* sovereign, being beholden to the European Central Bank. So their situation is different.

Hope this helps!
#mmt

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

DrALJONES
Yes indeedy it does. Nothing like having one's cloudiness cleared away 😁

@maugendre
@Eric Maugendre
Arindam
There's a term for it:

#CoinageSovereignty

'The coinage sovereignty of the state is a second source of power from which the state can directly cover its money requirement. Nobody contests the state's right to mint coins or to issue treasury notes, indeed beyond that the state has, by virtue of its sovereignty, produced money from every possible source. From copper, nickel, iron, porcelain, aluminium and, above all, from - paper.... we have to state here only that the state can actually cover its need by virtue of its coinage sovereignty, and that it is not forced "to borrow money on interest from those of its citizens who have more of it than they themselves can use".'

https://archive.org/stream/GottfriedFederTheGermanStateOnANationalAndSocialistFoundation/Gottfried%20Feder%20-%20The%20German%20State%20on%20a%20National%20and%20Socialist%20Foundation_djvu.txt
#coinagesovereignty
Eric Maugendre
Thank you for the pointer.
Personally, for efficiency, i prefer to push a growing idea rather than an outdated one.
I propose that coinage sovereignty is totally accurate and convenient. My problem is that coins are negligible and my humble proposal is to use #MMT concepts instead.
Notably: https://mas.to/@maugendre/113217242624688043

@DrALJONES

Eric Maugendre (@maugendre@mas.to)

"A national government is well placed to ensure acceptance of its own money. […] "The key to ensuring acceptance of a national currency is in the state’s power to tax.
mas.to
@DrALJONES
Arindam
That explains why the term 'coinage sovereignty' is not gaining the traction it deserves: the general public is likely to associate it with merely minting metallic money. In reality, it refers to much more - namely the right - and indeed, responsibility of the State to create the money (physical and digital) that society requires to function.

Far from being 'outdated', it's a concept of utmost importance... Indeed, it's the starting point of monetary reform... of which, much more indeed, could be said.

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

Andii Bowsher
totally agreee.
CassandraVert
Another big disconnect for a lot of people is thinking taxes and spending are tied together, that the federal government needs our money to function. Taxes exist to redistribute money and so we don't end up with billionaires. I think people would understand that more intuitively these days.
DrALJONES
Yes. And, after all, three things:

* most, if not all, govts & influential economists repeat it ad nauseum

* it is the case with states within countries

* in media depicting the "olden days", monarchs are always running around raising taxes or borrowing to fund wars etc.

So it makes sense that most people still believe taxes fund fed spending.

Unfortunately for us, billionaires bought our govts & so avoided being taxed out of existence.

@AndiiB @ApostateEnglishman

#mmt .
#mmt @The Sleight Doctor 🃏 @Andii Bowsher
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Yep. I wrote about how it works for the UK, below. 👇

https://mastodon.world/@ApostateEnglishman/114014502122725572

The Sleight Doctor 🃏 (@ApostateEnglishman@mastodon.world)

@jmcrookston@mastodon.social "For accounting purposes" is exactly right! So here in the UK - which also has a sovereign, fiat currency - Parliament authorizes the spend and the Bank of England extends its overdraft to the government.
Mastodon

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DrALJONES
🙏

You've probably come across this paper:

"This paper provides the first detailed institutional analysis of the UK Bank of England, Government's expenditure, revenue collection & debt issuance processes.

"We show that public expenditure is always financed through money creation rather than taxation or debt issuance."

2024 publication: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4890683

The self-financing state: an institutional analysis of government expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance operations in the United Kingdom

This paper provides the first detailed institutional analysis of the UK Government’s expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance processes. We show tha

papers.ssrn.com
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The Sleight Doctor 🃏
We actually have that one printed off in full! I've used it before to bet people good money they can't tell me which account the "taxpayer's money" is in, and sent them the link.

There is simply no such account, of course. 🤷‍♂️
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DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

DrALJONES
Ha! 👏👏👏
DrALJONES
Most people, including many economists, have been fed - and swallowed - Thatcher's lie: "There is no such thing as public money. There is only taxpayers' money."

Imo, we need to educate far and wide on this - especially the left. Please consider spreading what you know - in plain language for interested lay folks.

Eg, imo, currency-issuing govts' use of the word "debt" misleads people into thinking it was borrowed in the same way a household borrows & must repay.

#mmt .
#mmt
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Yep, and even socialists such as Jeremy Corbyn and his team unwittingly swallowed Thatcher's Big Lie and used right-wing framing when discussing the fiscal options available to a progressive government. It was all about how they would "cost" their policies via taxation.

As for Treasury bonds, they're just interest-yielding accounts at the Central Bank. Of course individual bonds mature, but the overall level of "debt" doesn't have to be brought down, not ever.

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

DrALJONES
Re "even Corbyn unwittingly swallowed Thatcher's Big Lie"

Ditto our Australian so-called "Labor" party & Greens (who Bill Mitchell calls "neoliberals on bikes").

I'm never sure when these pollies know the truth but are denying it to prevent increased demands from us peasants (as it ought to).

The other issue worth promoting widely, imo, is the fed job guarantee rather than a Musk-enforced UBI with few, if any, worker rights.
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Right. I've posted a fair bit on the UBI vs. JG. These posts mostly get ignored, however, as it's popular wisdom on the left that a UBI would be some sort of magic panacea. The supposedly successful experiments with a UBI simply haven't been run long enough to determine if it might devalue the currency in the longer-term, which basic macroeconomics strongly suggests it might.

https://mastodon.world/@ApostateEnglishman/114036151552726833

https://mastodon.world/@ApostateEnglishman/114036151552726833

The Sleight Doctor 🃏 (@ApostateEnglishman@mastodon.world)

@futurebird@sauropods.win Hmm. Most modern monetary theorists don't believe a UBI would go far enough, and think a Job Guarantee would be preferable. I personally found this counterintuitive at first, but the macroeconomic arguments are strong.
Mastodon

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DrALJONES
Much appreciated.

I tend to follow Tcherneva's work on FJG, and Bill's point about UBI's skirting around worker autonomy & good wages & conditions, etc. Which, imo, is exactly why oligarchs promote it.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/

With Kelton's inreasing popularity, I think it's time to inject more activity into the mmt hashtag.

Anything you post about mmt, please tag me, and I'll boost it.

Pavlina Tcherneva

Pavlina Tcherneva is an author, educator, and scholar who specializes in Modern Monetary Theory and public policy.
Pavlina Tcherneva
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Will do! Same for your own posts on the topic.
Cruiser
... but for some reason, those promising experiments gets aborted ... wonder to whoms benefit ... (cough) 🤔
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
As one of my links explains, even right-wing luminaries such as Hayek and Friedman have advocated a UBI, because they saw it as a way to dismantle other forms of social support and redistribute even more federally-created dollars to the oligarchs. Poor people do after all spend their money on goods and services, and will spend more if basic needs are met.

Also if it's true people still choose to work under a UBI, why not just guarantee them a job? A JG would be voluntary.

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

Cruiser
Most people wish to contribute, be valuable, make a difference, meaningfully. Let's dump the idea of a 'job' being needed for that, please 😎

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

The Sleight Doctor 🃏
JG jobs would almost exclusively be socially productive and based in the arts, humanities and other areas not catered for well by markets. They would not be for-profit but federally-funded. So for example, if you wanted to just be a traveling musician, that could be paid for under the JG.

It's just that unlike the UBI, it wouldn't create hyperinflationary pressures which would just make everyone poorer over time and eventually defeat the entire purpose of the UBI. 🤷‍♂️

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

DrALJONES
In my experience, there are many good reasons to incorporate jg programs in an overall social package without any moralising whatsoever.

Except, perhaps, to screw the billionaires out to use ubi for their own purposes (as apostate englishman outlined).

In case of interest:

Tcherneva is a lead specialist on fed job guarantee programs. https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/

UBI skirts around worker autonomy & good wages & conditions, etc. Which, imo, is exactly why oligarchs promote it.

#mmt .

Pavlina Tcherneva

Pavlina Tcherneva is an author, educator, and scholar who specializes in Modern Monetary Theory and public policy.
Pavlina Tcherneva
#mmt
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Cruiser
The early Canadian experiment did not see jobs, but societal dynamics from meaning, intent and ability, when having distributed basic support options to all. Later experiments with inadequate basic support still had job ideas included and less successfull

Likely the 'something only for something else' is the key cause of problems. When that is not involved, everyone is completely free to do what is more meaningfull to them - and that is the change needed, as I read UBI lessons learned 🤓
DrALJONES
I see this issue as both-and, not either/or.

There's no reason, imo, to leave a voluntary fed-funded jobs program out of a social assistance package that aims to provide a liveable income for everyone. People can chose what they want from it.

For me, more choice, hence, autonomy, is better than less choice.

@ApostateEnglishman
@The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Cruiser
Let's agree to agree to some extent - I see job as a capitalistic/feudalistic element leading to things we see today, which is why I'd wish to eliminate it 🤓
DrALJONES
I get what you're saying. I detest capitalism and i wish I lived in a pre-city-state, pre-class-hierarchical, pre-patriarchal, more egalitarian society. But I don't.

It might be again when the oligarch-created, climate-forever-war-poverty catastrophes wipe out most of us.

Until then, I figure, optimise what we can have.

@ApostateEnglishman
@The Sleight Doctor 🃏
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Walrus 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿
Oh, we should continue succesful tests, instead of introducing UBI universally, in the hope they fail eventually?
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
This is worth reading. 👇

https://gimms.org.uk/fact-sheets/universal-basic-income/

Universal Basic Income or a Job Guarantee? - The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies

The Univeral Basic Income alone does not address the institutional and structural faults that create inequality which proponents of the UBI seek to correct.
The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Never mind a UBI, consider what would happen if everyone in your own country were able to reduce their working hours, because the government subsidied employers to make up for any productivity loss. No test needs to be done (we already have the data!) to know that the reduction in overall productive capacity in the economy would mean the same amount of money chasing fewer goods and services, which would obviously be inflationary.

So a voluntary Job Guarantee is preferable.

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

DrALJONES
You might have seen this talk by Bill a few years back - including demolishing Australian "Labor"-party neoliberals:

Bill at Melb Fabian Society
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp3Mn7w_RvQ

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
www.youtube.com
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
Thanks! I'll give a listen once I've achieved the necessary blood-to-caffeine ratio to concentrate!

DrALJONES hat dies geteilt

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