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People like to say "email leaks metadata" but consider this: Delta apps do not store group metadata (memberlists, group names, avatars, keys) on servers. By comparison,

- #matrix stores group metadata unencrypted on home servers and replicates it to other federated matrix servers

- #signal stores encrypted group metadata on Amazon cloud servers

#deltachat uses a #p2p messaging model for encrypted group metadata where servers function as transport only.
#signal #matrix #p2p #deltachat
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Martin Schmitt #NochNieCDU
The delta group concept in its anarchic cooperativity is so far away from every kind of group we have *ever* seen based on *any* protocol, I can't even blame people if they find it hard to wrap their heads around it.
Delta Chat
heh, probably.true :) however, we could layer a cryptographically secured hierarchy (admins) on top but for private messaging we still don't consider it worth our while.
l
Rather than introducing hierarchies, consider searching for moderation schemes that are simpler: https://support.delta.chat/t/beehive-moderation/3547

Decentralized #moderation is a huge design space with subjective moderation of Cabal (https://cabal.chat/) and Aether (https://getaether.net/) for large groups, or Matrix having to deal with moderation of a large number of public chats in a federated system (https://archive.fosdem.org/2023/schedule/event/decentralising_moderation/)

Beehive moderation

There is a simple idea for decentralized moderation without hierarchies. You allow anyone to remove any other member like is allowed in Delta Chat already, but the member who removes someone has to leave as well.
Delta.Chat
#moderation
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Mostafa228
#Deltachat has two advantages over other other massaging solutions
1. Perfect balance between privacy and censorship resistance.
2. Easiest and cheapest massaging solution to self-host.
💪
#deltachat
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contrapunctus ✊
Does this mean DeltaChat doesn't store emails on servers at all? If so, how do offline messages work?

Also, how does one leave such DeltaChat groups?

Does this approach allow pseudonymous groups as seen in #XMPP? (Where only group moderators can see your chat/email address, and other members can only see your nickname.)

How do you prevent "gaslighting", i.e. someone sending completely different messages to different members of the group?
#xmpp
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🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
Does it have persistent IDs? like a profile address? Simplex.chat essentially allows you to have "a burner phone for every contact" allowing for maximum deniability should your contacts be compromised
𝙶𝚑𝟶𝚜𝚝𝚣𝟶𝚡
@🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat @Delta Chat
You can create an address (Chatmail) for each person if you want, and you can delete the address that after X days is automatically deleted.
With e-mail (Normal) you can create an alias and use that.
If you do not want to receive any more messages, delete the alias or block the user.
@🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat @Delta Chat
🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
Does it have quantum-resistant encryption like Signal and Simplex? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UrdExQW0cs

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
www.youtube.com
Delta Chat
There is no PQC yet, but it is currently in the process of being standardized by #OpenPGP WG: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-openpgp-pqc/

@gh0stz0x

Post-Quantum Cryptography in OpenPGP

This document defines a post-quantum public-key algorithm extension for the OpenPGP protocol. Given the generally assumed threat of a cryptographically relevant quantum computer, this extension provides a basis for long-term secure OpenPGP signatures…
IETF Datatracker
#openpgp @𝙶𝚑𝟶𝚜𝚝𝚣𝟶𝚡
𝙶𝚑𝟶𝚜𝚝𝚣𝟶𝚡
@🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat @Delta Chat

https://delta.chat/en/help#encryption-and-security 😉
@🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat @Delta Chat
🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
What is the potential privacy/stability advantage over simplex? delta chat says its p2p but in reality doesnt it heavily rely on centralised email relay servers?
Delta Chat
To clarify, Delta Chat is not a p2p messenger, but the group management is done entirely by "peers" sending encrypted messages to each other (over email relays) rather than accessing some database replicated by the servers (whether ran by a single entity in the "cloud" or multiple entities).
@gh0stz0x
@𝙶𝚑𝟶𝚜𝚝𝚣𝟶𝚡
feld
reminder that AES256 is considered "quantum resistant"*, but not "post-quantum".

Signal's cryptography is considered "post-quantum".

At this point PQC is more of a "nice to have" than a requirement for a secure private messenger. But we shouldn't sit on our laurels.

https://www.fierceelectronics.com/electronics/aes-256-joins-quantum-resistance

* I'm not aware of this changing. If it has, send me a message and I'll bookmark the new info.
𝙶𝚑𝟶𝚜𝚝𝚣𝟶𝚡
@feld @Delta Chat @🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

Let's say that Delta Chat will not have post-quantum encryption, but at least, compared to Signal, it is not easily blocked in hostile situations.
No point in having a Lamborghini in the garage without gas in the tank!
Delta Chat has the right balance between security and usability.
@feld @🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat @Delta Chat
🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
SimpleX is also not easily blocked by Signal but like Signal it has quantum resistant encryption seemingly unlike Delta Chat
Delta Chat
SimpleX was blocked in Russia simply by blocking a single TCP port nation-wide. The solution is to use SOCKS proxy: https://mastodon.social/@simplex/113137959973971123

SimpleX Chat (@simplex@mastodon.social)

SimpleX Chat is blocked in Russia. We might have a solution next week.
Mastodon
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