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How the Nomads handle quote-post permission
Here's another thing that you may not know about Hubzilla and (streams) yet: Not only do they have quote-posts, but they also have pretty effective anti-quote-post defences.
Hubzilla has a permission setting named "Can source/mirror my public posts in derived channels". It has been there since 2012 when Hubzilla was still a fledgling project named Red, that's 13 years now.
Whether someone may quote-post ("share") your public posts depends on the setting in the channel role. If your channel is set to "Public", I think everyone is allowed to share your public posts. If it's set to "Private", you can (and have to) grant that permission to your connections individually by contact role. Those whom you aren't connected to are not allowed to share any of your posts.
The "Custom" channel role lets you choose between granting that permission, one out of 17 permissions, to:
(streams) goes even further. As far as I know, it doesn't give you the option to let everyone quote-post any of your posts in the first place. Not only are you always opted out to the point that only you yourself may quote-post your posts, but you can't even fully opt in.
No matter if your channel type is "Social - Public" or "Social - Restricted", the only ones who are allowed to quote-post even only your public posts are those of your connections who get the permission from you. Unlike on Hubzilla, however, you don't have to fumble around with permission roles, although you may do so to speed things up. You've also got a dedicated switch for this permission on each connection labelled "Grant permission to republish/mirror your posts".
This permission has its strongest effect on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte: If one of their users is not allowed to share one of your posts, the Share button is missing altogether. And there's no real way around the Share button.
In fact, the Repeat button is missing, too. If you aren't allowed to quote-post it, you aren't allowed to boost it either. This permission is not about how you may forward someone's content, but whether you may forward it.
Unfortunately, Fediverse users probably everywhere else are not affected by this permission. Users of Pleroma, Misskey and their respective forks can still quote-post you to their heart's content. And I've got my doubts that Mastodon will understand this permission when it introduces quote-posts.
Then again, it's highly likely that Mastodon's quote-post opt-in or opt-out won't work outside of Mastodon either.
If you really want to be safe, you've additionally got the option to not post in public. Any post that isn't public can neither be repeated (boosted) nor shared (quote-posted).
Both Hubzilla and (streams) give you the option to send a post to the members of a privacy group/access list (think Mastodon list on coke and 'roids), to a specific group/forum or to any individual selection of connections of yours. (streams) also has Mastodon's option to send a post to all your connections; Hubzilla can emulate that with a privacy group with all your connections in it.
Okay, your post will lose a whole lot of reach. But this is a trick that even Mastodon understands in a certain way: If a post from Hubzilla or (streams) has a restricted audience, Mastodon takes it for a PM. And you can't boost PMs, can you?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Permissions
Hubzilla
Hubzilla has a permission setting named "Can source/mirror my public posts in derived channels". It has been there since 2012 when Hubzilla was still a fledgling project named Red, that's 13 years now.
Whether someone may quote-post ("share") your public posts depends on the setting in the channel role. If your channel is set to "Public", I think everyone is allowed to share your public posts. If it's set to "Private", you can (and have to) grant that permission to your connections individually by contact role. Those whom you aren't connected to are not allowed to share any of your posts.
The "Custom" channel role lets you choose between granting that permission, one out of 17 permissions, to:
- everyone in the Fediverse
- everyone on Hubzilla and (streams)
- everyone on your home hub
- unconfirmed and confirmed connections
- confirmed connections
- only those whom you individually grant that permission
- nobody but you
(streams)
(streams) goes even further. As far as I know, it doesn't give you the option to let everyone quote-post any of your posts in the first place. Not only are you always opted out to the point that only you yourself may quote-post your posts, but you can't even fully opt in.
No matter if your channel type is "Social - Public" or "Social - Restricted", the only ones who are allowed to quote-post even only your public posts are those of your connections who get the permission from you. Unlike on Hubzilla, however, you don't have to fumble around with permission roles, although you may do so to speed things up. You've also got a dedicated switch for this permission on each connection labelled "Grant permission to republish/mirror your posts".
The effect
This permission has its strongest effect on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte: If one of their users is not allowed to share one of your posts, the Share button is missing altogether. And there's no real way around the Share button.
In fact, the Repeat button is missing, too. If you aren't allowed to quote-post it, you aren't allowed to boost it either. This permission is not about how you may forward someone's content, but whether you may forward it.
Unfortunately, Fediverse users probably everywhere else are not affected by this permission. Users of Pleroma, Misskey and their respective forks can still quote-post you to their heart's content. And I've got my doubts that Mastodon will understand this permission when it introduces quote-posts.
Then again, it's highly likely that Mastodon's quote-post opt-in or opt-out won't work outside of Mastodon either.
Privacy as an extra line of defence
If you really want to be safe, you've additionally got the option to not post in public. Any post that isn't public can neither be repeated (boosted) nor shared (quote-posted).
Both Hubzilla and (streams) give you the option to send a post to the members of a privacy group/access list (think Mastodon list on coke and 'roids), to a specific group/forum or to any individual selection of connections of yours. (streams) also has Mastodon's option to send a post to all your connections; Hubzilla can emulate that with a privacy group with all your connections in it.
Okay, your post will lose a whole lot of reach. But this is a trick that even Mastodon understands in a certain way: If a post from Hubzilla or (streams) has a restricted audience, Mastodon takes it for a PM. And you can't boost PMs, can you?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Permissions
streams
Consent based public domain federated communications server. Provides a feature rich ActivityPub and Nomad communication node.Codeberg.org
@jakob 🇦🇹 ✅ @Lioh Den kann ich sogar noch über.
(Selbst-Quote-Posten FTW! Man ist ja schreibfaul.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #InternetExplorer #InternetExplorer6 #IE6
Yes, it's that bad
I've read an interesting comparison the other day: Mastodon is the Internet Explorer 6 of the Fediverse.
It's underwhelming. It's underequipped. It lacks features that are standard just about everywhere else. It's actually hopelessly outdated. In fact, it's even insecure, also due to how it lacks security features that competitors have readily available. And it ignores officially defined standards and tries hard to force the whole {Fediverse|Web} to adopt its own non-standard solutions instead.
At the same time, however, for many many users, it is the {Fediverse|Internet}, full stop.
For the vast majority of {Fediverse|Internet} users, it was the first {Fediverse project|Web browser} they came across because that's what they were mouth-fed when they started with the {Fediverse|Internet}. For quite a long time, it was the only {Fediverse project|Web browser} they even knew existed, and for many, it still is. Alternatives are only known to and used by the tech-savvy, and they're also the only ones who are aware of how dangerously lacking it is.
Thus, it has vastly more users than all its alternatives combined. Its market share is such that its developers don't even have to care for standards compatibility or what advantages the competition has. They can force their way upon everyone and everything.
Even many websites are built hard against only {Mastodon|the Internet Explorer} and malfunction or completely refuse to work with any of its alternatives, not seldomly because their developers don't even know that alternatives exist. And few developers dare to build {websites|Fediverse projects} only according to {HTML|ActivityPub} standards, even if that means breaking compatibility with {Mastodon|the IE6}.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Comparison #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #FediverseIsNotMastodon #InternetExplorer #InternetExplorer6 #IE6
(Selbst-Quote-Posten FTW! Man ist ja schreibfaul.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #InternetExplorer #InternetExplorer6 #IE6
Jupiter Rowland
An avatar roaming the decentralised and federated 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator, a free and open-source server-side re-implementation of Second Life.hub.netzgemeinde.eu
@Matthias Die Quote-Posts an sich vielleicht nicht. Möglicherweise übernehmen sie dieselbe Technologie wie Misskey, weil Threads die auch hat.
Aber das Opt-In wird nur innerhalb von Mastodon funktionieren.
#CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares
Aber das Opt-In wird nur innerhalb von Mastodon funktionieren.
#CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares
@Lioh Und genau das wurde auf Twitter eingesetzt als Waffe gegen Angehörige von Minderheiten (BIPoC, 2SLGBTQQIA+ etc.). Im Grunde kennt man das als Twitter-User nur dafür.
Noch ein Grund, warum so viele von da nach Mastodon geflohen sind: weil Mastodon keine Quote-Posts/Drükos/Drukos hat.
Was aber kaum jemand auf Mastodon weiß: Das Fediverse hat sehr wohl Quote-Posts. Praktisch alles, was Mikro- oder Makroblogging macht und nicht "Mastodon" heißt, kann quote-posten. Und kann auch Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten.
Aussage, die ich gerade bekommen habe: Hubzilla und (streams) hätten nie die Möglichkeit haben dürfen, Mastodon-Tröts zu quote-posten, weil Mastodon sich gegen Quote-Posts entschieden hat.
Nur: Zum einen war 2016 das Nichtimplementieren von Quote-Posts keine Entscheidung zum Schutz von Twitter-Flüchtlingen, sondern zum Vereinfachen von Mastodon. Zum anderen müßten wahrscheinlich mehr als 60 Fediverse-Serveranwendungen für Mastodon eine Ausnahme einbauen.
Was für Twitter-Flüchtlinge auf Mastodon auch völlig unvorstellbar ist: Quote-Posts sind in fast 15 Jahren Friendica nie mißbräuchlich genutzt worden. Und überall sonst, was Quote-Posts kann, auch nicht.
Übrigens ist auch das wieder so ein Fall, wo Mastodon-Nutzer versuchen, dem gesamten Fediverse die Mastodon-Kultur aufzuzwingen und Features, die Mastodon nicht hat, wegzunehmen.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares
Noch ein Grund, warum so viele von da nach Mastodon geflohen sind: weil Mastodon keine Quote-Posts/Drükos/Drukos hat.
Was aber kaum jemand auf Mastodon weiß: Das Fediverse hat sehr wohl Quote-Posts. Praktisch alles, was Mikro- oder Makroblogging macht und nicht "Mastodon" heißt, kann quote-posten. Und kann auch Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten.
Aussage, die ich gerade bekommen habe: Hubzilla und (streams) hätten nie die Möglichkeit haben dürfen, Mastodon-Tröts zu quote-posten, weil Mastodon sich gegen Quote-Posts entschieden hat.
Nur: Zum einen war 2016 das Nichtimplementieren von Quote-Posts keine Entscheidung zum Schutz von Twitter-Flüchtlingen, sondern zum Vereinfachen von Mastodon. Zum anderen müßten wahrscheinlich mehr als 60 Fediverse-Serveranwendungen für Mastodon eine Ausnahme einbauen.
Was für Twitter-Flüchtlinge auf Mastodon auch völlig unvorstellbar ist: Quote-Posts sind in fast 15 Jahren Friendica nie mißbräuchlich genutzt worden. Und überall sonst, was Quote-Posts kann, auch nicht.
Übrigens ist auch das wieder so ein Fall, wo Mastodon-Nutzer versuchen, dem gesamten Fediverse die Mastodon-Kultur aufzuzwingen und Features, die Mastodon nicht hat, wegzunehmen.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares