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## Fediverse the ultimate neoliberal social engineering experiment

https://diasporasocial.net/posts/4704211

#Fediverse #mastodon #marxism #anarchism #libertarian #Communism #neoliberalism #fascism #censorship #diaspora #friendica
Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (3 Tage her)

yianiris hat dies geteilt

Can't see ur diaspora* link without an account apparently. It asks for a login, at that site. I use diasp.org. Wont let me login here.
could you please share it with us but in a way we can see what it is about,? cause login is required. 🧐
Fixed?

https://diasporasocial.net/posts/4704211

@heretical_i @omartwotone
yes it's fixed, and here's my opinion:
I've experienced once the deletion of a post which was about vaccines a long time ago, it was from a claiming from a user of another instance I'm on. I get the point that in all servers there are rules by owners, some more permissive than others, the respect is the only and common one. also I've observed that many users here have leftist points of view in many topics, when was the US elections, mastodon was insoportable, but I know it's impossible all people have my way of thinking. even though I don't think it is a complete social engineering experiment because we have the choice of being an owner running our instance or changing to another one with the minimum premise of respect. I've not tried diaspora yet, but certainly I've considered other spaces like the social media "minds" which is also federated where I post even more sensitive things than here in mastodon.
You must have heard the saying, "I agree with what you are saying but I will die fighting for your right to say it"

Here we live like in a Chilean democracy, where they might agree with what you are saying but they can make you vanish anyway because they can.

@omartwotone @heretical_i

Heretical_i hat dies geteilt

About the 'respect' thing... kafeneio.social gets it right. @omartwotone @yianiris
image/jpeg
🤔 and what about if the admin or a moderator feels extremely insulted just by a complete opposite post or opinion, (that's a point on the original post from diaspora)... should they deliberately delete or ban accounts just for being the owner of the instance? should everyone and each one be an owner to avoid censorship?

yianiris hat dies geteilt

Here I believe the FEW mods on duty are report button bullied from other instances and, as one said in an exchange regarding a takedown, 'youre a pain inthe ass', which is why it's made clear that they dont care about decorum, until the complaints overwhelm. Happens with Gender issues and Vaccine posts. Both have their share of fascists who shout down differing opionions. Exen polite correct ones @omartwotone @yianiris
It also happens if a non-US native speaker is not current in the latest PC etiquette, or what the dominant pseudo-environmental protectionist lobby tolerates as scientific facts.

The intolerance of m-l Marxists to denounce and erase any "un-orthodox" views on their holly scripts (lemmies) interpretation is also a source of agony.

Then we have "anarchists" convinced on "label" level theories, communism=lenninism and enforce anti-communism.

Intolerance everywhere

@heretical_i @omartwotone
I suspect the need to survive as a viable instance connected to the fediverse is being mistaken by you for 'intolerance'. NO ONE WILL SABOTAGE THEIR WORK FOR YOU, nor should you expect them to...@yianiris. I have this discussion every time a site is shown to have obeyed a valid court order too. No one will fall on their sword for you. You expect, lets say, Mega Cloud, to go out of biz over ONE user? Really. Same here, but disenfranchised from other instances instead
@omartwotone
Ownership of a server means that it is much easier and tolerated to delete content and/or the author than debate over a topic. This is why #fediverse appears more intolerant to difference than commercial services who only care about doing a job.

If the model worked we would see more servers and more people, what we see on stats is more servers going off the air than new ones. No attempt to organize and set rules beyond "private ownership".

@omartwotone @heretical_i
The reason server go down may just be because people were playing and experimenting with mastodon sw too. You make a lot of assumptions. Including the less tolerance @yianiris One thing that's true no matter the size of the server or mods, if you badger them you're history. If they don't want or be cut off from the rest of the fediverse b/c outside views on, lets say vaccines, its their server. Find another one for that discussion.
@omartwotone
Vaccines in specific is something I stayed away from, not all vaccines are good/bad and everyone should make an educated choice on one.

You are also making the assumption that servers going down at such high rate is because of experimentation. All I see is a steady decline, when all advocates keep saying get your own server

@heretical_i @omartwotone
Having your own server won't do you any good if you're talking to the bitbucket b/c you've been blocked by most instances, if thats what you want. Like having a blogspot blog no one visits. Free speech everywhere is related to the recipient more than the person exercising the right. You can have all you want, but that doesnt mean anyone will listen. @yianiris @omartwotone
Nearly exactly, most respond with "get your own server" to solve your individual problem, when the problem is collective it is not an individual one.

Because of what you explain, expression and communication in fediverse is under the boot of "individual ownership" and discretion. Skewed and distorted just as a pseudo democracy is.

HOW can there be a collective body/agreement to end this dictatorial rule of the "majority"

@heretical_i @omartwotone @luca
In real/material life, space, land, water is public and contains human rights. The problem we have here is that there is not an inch left of being public and if you feel discomfort as a guest go buy your own land and do as you like. Even at the risk of being excluded by the club of other owners.

In other words, I am not talking about my problem (you are suggesting how to solve it), I am talking of a general collective problem we have.

@heretical_i @omartwotone @luca
True revolution will never stop, there has to be continuously a revolution within the revolution. The moment you get comfortable with your achievements you become just another reactionary force against change and maintaining a status quo. 1917+0.1s

#Fediverse may be a good step for something better, but discussion for the better should take place in #fediverse, not be banned, for the sake of defending #fediverse

@heretical_i @omartwotone
^The linked thread is an excellent example of why idealism is a dead-end ideological tool that gets people nowhere.

>Somehow, very few people find all this disturbing, and in contrast to social media owned and operated by large corporations, many progressive, democratic, liberal minded people think and act convinced that this is better. I have no clue what goes on in most corporate social media, long ago when I used twitter I don’t remember any post of mine being removed. As far as I can tell, as long as they can sell IDs, cookies, email accounts, and advertising they couldn’t care less what you think. Communists (authoritarian/totalitarian and libertarian/democractic), anarchists of all colors and flavors, never see so much restriction, sensitivity, and censorship as exercised in #Fediverse.

Thinking that corporate social media doesn't care what you think, that there is no restriction or censorship of socialist or communist or anarchist thought, that everything is welcome so long as money is made, is thoroughly ahistorical and a blatant disregard for material reality. Thinking that, somehow, the #fediverse is a better representation of #neoliberalism than corporate social media, betrays a basic misunderstanding of what the word even means.

#socialism #communism #marxism #anarchism
There is a difference between "corporate media" as in NYT preventing any other expression than their own managed rhetoric, and something like fb/twit/reddit/...

For example you can start a "room" on reddit and critically analyze where and why has Marxist theory failed, or how Marxists treating original theory as holly script have prevented revision of theory when it is needed. On lemmy m-l fediverse servers your material just gets deleted and account banned.

see #Chomsky

@aspensmonster
#Chomsky did a great deal of work explaining how media (then) didn't have an immediate interest in presenting ideology but conveying what was popular and what sold.

Revolution has never been popular, the idea or proposal for anything revolutionary has received resistance from the exploited and the oppressed just as from the oppressors and the exploiters.

Then there was the song, the revolution will not be televised . :)

#500characterlimit

@aspensmonster
"I have no clue what goes on in most corporate social media, long ago when I used twitter I don’t remember any post of mine being removed."

Yeeeeah, no. It's downright goofy to make big comparisons or conclusions about this when you have no clue how what goes on over there.

And I don't see how we can honestly have anything resembling a true digital commons until we have totally different infrastructure, like mesh networks or something.
... how we can honestly have anything resembling a true digital commons until we have totally different infrastructure, ...

Now that is something we can agree on, but few realize this, the digital air we breath here belongs to a handful of telecom multinationals globally.

But as zapatistas repeat, we struggle for autonomy, we have what we constructed, we miss what we are missing. As long as we remain conscious.

@violetmadder @heretical_i @aspensmonster